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Author Topic: Desuperheating Steam engine  (Read 787 times)
JeremyH
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« on: December 28, 2009, 02:41:04 PM »

The following link will take you to the latest animation of the engine cycle

 http://www.flashsteam.com/steam_proj3.htm





Thought this link could also prove useful, it gives some good info about desuperheating in general.

http://www.spiraxsarco.com/resources/steam-engineering-tutorials/desuperheating/basic-desuperheating-theory.asp
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 02:43:54 PM by JeremyH » Logged
dnix71
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 08:46:14 PM »

Have you considered heating the block with superheated steam and injecting water just below the flash point into the cylinders as a workaround to the inefficiencies of injecting steam?

Recover waste heat from the exhaust to preheat incoming water.
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JeremyH
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2009, 03:06:23 PM »

Hi David,

Quote
Have you considered heating the block with superheated steam and injecting water just below the flash point into the cylinders as a workaround to the inefficiencies of injecting steam?

There are problems associated with injecting steam, the L912 valve could do both water or steam. Although the CV factor was limited for steam injection. While proofing the engines I commonly used compressed argon thru the injector. I still use compressed argon @2400psi to proof(bench testing) the injector valves after there made.

Quote
injecting water just below the flash point into the cylinders as a workaround to the inefficiencies of injecting steam?

Yes, actually this is the current configuration that im aiming for.

Quote
Have you considered heating the block with superheated steam

I feel that pulling some steam from the condenser, thats routed thru a superheater on its way to the intake port is the best way to conserve the latent heat energy that the steam exhausted from the engine still has. If the steam coming from the superheater was then routed to the block heating circuit, it would remove some of the superheat in the steam, before it made its way into the engine. Remember this steam engine is 4 cycle, so it does have an intake stroke. This can be tricky for some to visulise. The intake poppet valve then closes and a compression stroke is begun. Thats how the superheated steam gets into the engine cylinder. The injector is a 3rd valve, considering the exhaust poppet valve. The injector valve injects hot water into the cylinder. The preffered method for block heating is to use heat transfer fluid(oil) this does not make pressure and is easier to manage. The block heating circuit is mainly needed to get the engine started, and may be shut off under some conditions, the outside surface of the oil heating circuit is very insulated.

Quote
Recover waste heat from the exhaust to preheat incoming water.

I preffer not to attempt to cool all of the exhaust steam, since a percentage is routed to a superheater, the amount of exhaust steam thats left, its just condenced. That could be done, but wont give a very big bang for the buck, because its only a percentage of the total exhaust steam.

What your describing is called a heat regeneration type/class of steam engine. Some preffer this methodology, but its most likely not compatable with a 4 cycle steam engine configuration, or a flash steam principle.

 A desuperheating flash steam engine is in a heat conservation class, because it recycles some of the exhaust steam, as steam, instead of extracting its heat energy, differing from a regenerative class of engine. The two don't work the same way, there different at the core design level. Im very carful to avoid saying one is better than the other, since there both relatively new types of steam engines, that are emerging.

Ive had a very close look at the regenerative steam engines, I was invited by the OEM manufacturer of these engines, to observe some running prototypes, they are indeed interesting.


Jeremy

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rickcarr
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2010, 10:45:43 PM »

Why are you going with a four stroke engine this may seem a silly question but i have not asked and my reasons may be different to yours .
i am building a single cycle engine that does not use a boiler as such i will show the patented version shortly (its already patented) .
My engine is a normal 4 cycle with the head remachined to allow the insertion of ceramic internals there is no normal valves or exhaust .This engine recycles the steam .the bearings are plastic and are water lubricated and so are the rings.The top of the piston is ceramic,I will probably make it all ceramic after testing.The top 3/4 of cylinder is ceramic as is head of cylinder using old head and inserting ceramic liners.this is built this way to keep steam at superheated power all the way down to joint in ceramic and steel cylinder,and only then does steam lose its heat to cylinder wall the steam is then pushed back up into a larger orifice in head ceramic and heater (a bosch glow plug) of my design is inserted.The end being the closing device and the steam is reheated to super heated in a very shot time as the heater only has to bring it back from 300 to 390 degrees C .There are 4 of these orifices (tubes) on the head vertical to the run of the cylinder .Every time top dead centre is achieved the  heater retracts in one of these 4 tubes, determined by a computer which is connected to heat censors in the tubes only when superheat is reached does it retract which has been worked out to be every cycle .This is how i have turned a 4 stroke into a single stoke very low revving very powerfull engine approximately 3 times as powerfull as a petrol engine.But this engine is set to a certain number of revs by the tube size on the head. it is built to run a generator and very nearly is perpetual motion in that it generates its own heater power .The only reason it is not is it needs a starter battery.But once started it goes untill the bearings wear out,no need to stop it.The sump acts as the water tank as the only steam that escapes is past the rings and that is recycled by start up injector enabled by a pressure censor in the cylinder.there you go ! i read your article a few years ago and that started me thinking of this way,when your motor would not run when you injected steam into a cold engine.thanks.  
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 10:59:00 PM by rickcarr » Logged
JeremyH
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2010, 11:18:07 PM »

Hi Rick,

Welcome to the forum.

Quote
Why are you going with a four stroke engine this may seem a silly question but i have not asked and my reasons may be different to yours .

As you aready know, I heat the cylinder and head of the engine, however these surface areas are not enough to cause a completey sustained flash steam engine to run at speed. Since a 4-stroke engine configuration is used for the engine, it may pull steam into itself. Before the steam is aspired by the engine it is superheated at relatively low pressures, this transfers additional heat energy into the cylinder.

Quote
i read your article a few years ago and that started me thinking of this way.when your motor would not run when you injected steam into a cold engine.thanks.

Im glad this helped you with your ideas for making an engine.
 

best

Jeremy
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JeremyH
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2010, 10:31:35 AM »

Im just collecting some data here,

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steam-vapor-enthalpy-d_160.html

http://www.auto-ware.com/combust_bytes/eng_sci.htm

http://steamautomobile.com/phorum5214/read.php?1,15817

http://steamautomobile.com/phorum5214/read.php?1,10574,page=2

http://steamautomobile.com/phorum5214/read.php?1,14903

The last three links there are some of my threads on the SACA Forum, I am a member of the Steam Automoble Club of America.


Since the 4cycle steam engine is not a rankine cycle engine, calculating thermal efficiency is not very straight forward. Im making these note's here because it will assist me in calculating projected engine/expander efficiency.

*** I also welcome any help from others, who are interested in this type of steam engine.***

 We already know it works, (4cycle flash steam engine) but it is disired to know exactly why and how it works.

 The following are two links of interest, the second link is the most relevant, qoutes from it are provided below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_efficiency

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy

Quote from: from link
The total enthalpy, H, of a system cannot be measured directly. Thus, change in enthalpy, ΔH, is a more useful value than H itself. The value of ΔH is positive in endothermic reactions. ΔH of a system is equal to the sum of non-mechanical work done on it and the heat supplied to it. For quasistatic processes under constant pressure, ΔH is equal to the change in the internal energy of the system, plus the work that the system has done on its surroundings.[1]

The main reason this quote is relevant, is because of the discovery of the "Heat of Rejection" factor, and using "heat of rejection" as a framework, the underlaying thermodynamic mechanisms may become more clear. 

Here's another example
Quote from: additional quote from link
Heats of Reaction

The total enthalpy of a system cannot be measured directly; the enthalpy change of a system is measured instead. Enthalpy change is defined by the following equation:

ΔH = Hfinal − Hinitial
where

ΔH  is the enthalpy change
Hfinal is the final enthalpy of the system, expressed in joules. In a chemical reaction, Hfinal is the enthalpy of the products.
Hinitial is the initial enthalpy of the system, expressed in joules. In a chemical reaction, Hinitial is the enthalpy of the reactants.
For an exothermic reaction at constant pressure, the system's change in enthalpy equals the energy released in the reaction, including the energy retained in the system and lost through expansion against its surroundings. In a similar manner, for an endothermic reaction, the system's change in enthalpy is equal to the energy absorbed in the reaction, including the energy lost by the system and gained from compression from its surroundings. A relatively easy way to determine whether or not a reaction is exothermic or endothermic is to determine the sign of ΔH. If ΔH is positive, the reaction is endothermic, that is heat is absorbed by the system due to the products of the reaction having a greater enthalpy than the reactants. On the other hand if ΔH is negative, the reaction is exothermic, that is the overall decrease in enthalpy is achieved by the generation of heat.

Although enthalpy is commonly used in engineering and science, it is impossible to measure directly, as enthalpy has no datum (reference point). Therefore enthalpy can only accurately be used in a closed system. However, few real-world applications exist in closed isolation, and it is for this reason that two or more closed systems cannot be compared using enthalpy as a basis, although sometimes this is done erroneously.

Quote from: unknown
Specific Enthalpy

Specific enthalpy (h) is defined as h = u + Pn, where u is the specific internal energy (Btu/lbm)
of the system being studied, P is the pressure of the system (lbf/ft2), and n is the specific volume
(ft3/lbm) of the system. Enthalpy is usually used in connection with an "open" system problem
in thermodynamics. Enthalpy is a property of a substance, like pressure, temperature, and
volume, but it cannot be measured directly. Normally, the enthalpy of a substance is given with
respect to some reference value. For example, the specific enthalpy of water or steam is given
using the reference that the specific enthalpy of water is zero at .01°C and normal atmospheric
pressure. The fact that the absolute value of specific enthalpy is unknown is not a problem,
however, because it is the change in specific enthalpy (Dh) and not the absolute value that is
important in practical problems. Steam tables include values of enthalpy as part of the
information tabulated.

Now this is where things get interesting.

http://www.flashsteam.com/Heat.htm

Quote from: link
The injector has a internal pressure of 1784.4psi and 620°f, the discharged water, has 638.3btu/lb. The percentage of flash steam produced is 61.7% The percentage of heat transfer is 93.8%

 That's nearly 100% heat transfer rate, and this is not good.

 Remember the engine did not turn over under these conditions. All the heat from the flash steam was transferred into the engine block. None of it was rejected, as the result there was no positive pressure produced in the cylinder.

 But, at a block temp of 180°f(147.9btu/lb) the engine turned over, there was positive pressure developed from the injected water, since heat was conserved or rejected by the system.

    In this case, the equation yielded 50% flash steam discharge and 77% heat transfer rate, that's 20% less (heat transfer) than with the cold engine block.

 It may be noticed that as heat transfer decreases. That the resulting steam produced, performs more work. This occurs with less percentage of flash steam than would occur at colder temperatures according to the formula.

 This is what is meant by Heat Of Rejection.


It is important to keep in mind, that only the "power-stroke" is being considered here. The goal is to effectively create a "power-pulse" which means there is expansion of the injected water, while a simultaneous rise in the "pressure in the cylinder" is occuring. Piston cylinder pressures to 1500psi may be achieved.(with 600°f superheating)

Quote
, for an endothermic reaction, the system's change in enthalpy is equal to the energy absorbed in the reaction, including the energy lost by the system and gained from compression from its surroundings.

This leads me to believe the reaction is actually a "Polytropic" expansion process. Both pressure rise and expansion of the injected water are occuring. This is very clearly observed when the parameters defined by Heat of Rejection are trending toward endothermic (hence de-superheating). In this case there are a total of 3 possible heat inputs that must be considered at piston TDC on a power-stroke.

A.  The injected water is near 400°f, and is under a hydrostatic pressure of about 2000psi before/during injection.

B.  The upper third of the engine cylinder, cylinder head, and injector nozzle body are heated by means of heat transfer fluid to appox 400°f. These fluid passages are insulated on there external surfaces.

C.  Low pressure 525°f to 600°f superheated steam is aspired into the engine cylinder and fully compressed at approx 9 to 1 compression ratio,(captured) just as the beginning of the power-stroke event occurs, the piston begins downward movement, expansion begins.

"A" determines the quantity of "expansion factor" of the system.(1600 to 1 water expansion ratio) depending on the programable lift setting(mechanical) in the injector valve and hydrostatic pressure of the injection system, combined with desired angular setting and cutoff(which are digital control in this case, im thinking about 8% to a max cutoff, of about 25%, and 5° to 0° admission advance setting).

"B" and "C" are Heat of Rejection factors with "C" being the primary factor, "B" is used for engine startup and may be disengaged.

When the engine(4 cycle steam) aspires superheated steam and compresses it, its best described as a conservation process, the aspired saturated steam (before superheating) is able to retain its latent heat energy when it is re-used by the engine cycle.


Jeremy
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 06:15:48 PM by JeremyH » Logged
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